Ghost Hunting and Parapsychology - Is there a difference?
Since my previous blog on Paranormal Investigation Groups was posted I've received several emails from folks who seemed agitated by this blog, stating that they don't need to be "professionals" or have a degree to "hunt ghosts." They do it because they enjoy it and its who they are. And I totally agree. You don't have to have a degree in parapsychology or have some certification to search for ghosts. And it is completely fine to do so if you enjoy this.
This has urged me to focus some light on the topic of ghost hunting. My main concern with ghost hunting in general and ghost hunting groups in particular is its high level of missing knowledge, especially where the fields of Parapsychology, Quantum Physics, and Noetics are concerned. There seems to be a general ignorance that ghost hunting or ghosts, hauntings and poltergeists have anything to do with Parapsychology. This is odd, because it is Parapsychology (or the earlier term of Psychical Research) that created this field and defined the phenomena in the first place. Parapsychology has pioneered the investigative techniques (and technology used), and has been on the cutting edge of paranormal and psychical research for over a hundred years. With this being the case, you would think that those who are truly interested in investigating the unexplained and take it seriously (that is, its not just an infrequent hobby) would be avid students of Parapsychology and its research, but sadly this just is not the case.
Why do I feel the need to address this? Do I have a degree in Parapsychology? No I don't, nor do I presently have any "Paranormal Investigation Certification". It concerns me because I take this seriously and I desire to know all that can be known about Psi and the paranormal (and the two are intertwined).
I believe that there are many people who are also very serious about the paranormal, but just have not been challenged to think through things. Freethinking is what I am about...thinking through things thoroughly, being a constant student and ever learning, even if it hurts. I just want to challenge all of us "ghost hunters" to think and not to be lazy. Its easy to do. Its easy to go down to Barnes and Noble and pick up one or two books on ghosts and paranormal investigations by a self proclaimed "expert" in the field and feel like you know most of what you need to know about these matters. If you are really serious you may have five or six books on the paranormal, are a dedicated member of a local ghost hunting group and have been actively investigating for several years with up to fifteen or twenty investigations under your belt. Which is great. Yet, do you continue to grow and learn? Are you still willing to learn and research and gain knowledge even if it goes against the current beliefs or position of your ghost hunting group? Are you dedicated to truth (inward and outward truth) or to being accepted and looked up to? That, I believe, is the real issue.
There are many wonderful folks with fantastic intentions that are experienced ghost hunters and leaders in the paranormal investigation community. Yet here is my question for the leaders of groups like T.A.P.S.: Is your dedication to ghost hunting to really find truth or to be well regarded for your hard work and admired as being an "expert" in your field? I mean, who wouldn't want that? Would you be willing to lay down your positions in these groups or change your group's stance if you found out that you were propagating unscientific or misinformation about ghosts and hauntings? Would you change or would you seek to justify yourself and turn a deaf ear to better and more scientific information?
Unfortunately this is what I have seen in many of the ghost hunting communities. Truth and scientific fact many times ends up taking a back seat to the excitement of the hunt, the thrill of the unexplained, and becoming an "expert" in the field. Its a hard thing to be an "expert" and then change your position to become more inline with the scientific research if you are wrong. You loose friends and have descention, groups split and reputations are ruined, a lot of hard work is lost. Its easier to ignore the science and continue on than to run the risk of change.
To some degree many of the larger ghost hunting groups have become like churches. Governed by a core group of experienced "elders" who do not take well to being asked too many questions. The less experienced members take their orders and training from the "elders" and generally follow the direction and beliefs of the group without the need to question. The "elders" are the most knowledgeable and have no need of being challenged by less knowledgeable underlings. If there is conflict with or unwelcomed questioning of the leaders then you are disciplined or removed from the group. I've seen this happen first hand many times.
What I am getting at here is that many ghost hunting groups base their knowledge and understanding of ghosts, apparitions, hauntings, poltergeists and other unexplained phenomena on information other than the cutting-edge scientific research of parapsychology. This is attune to Christian churches using something other than the bible for their understanding of God. Paranormal Investigations SHOULD be based on science, not the writings of a self-proclaimed expert on the paranormal.
Can anyone fault me for being a stickler for science in a field like the paranormal? Why is this important? Because science creates a standard of knowledge, especially with regards to the unexplained. Could you imagine a Physicist ignoring the principles of science and writing a book based more on feelings and half-baked ideas than from hard science? Absolutely not. What makes us any different? The very fact that most paranormal investigators, whether leaders or not, have very little knowledge of parapsychology, its history and its research (past, present and where its going), is sad. Especially since it was Parapsychologists who began paranormal investigations in the first place.
Do I believe that Parapsychologists today are the real "experts" of the ghost hunting community? Yes I do. So am I saying that if you are not a Parapsychologist that you can never be an "expert" in paranormal investigations, regardless how many years of study and investigation you've put in? No, certainly not, but if your investigations and studies have not been based on the founding protoscience of Parapsychology, then how can you rightfully consider yourself or anyone else an "expert" in the field? Think about this.
Loyd Auerbach, director of The Office of Paranormal Investigations, and one of the leading Parapsychologists in the world has a "Certificate Course in Parapsychological Studies" http://www.mindreader.com/paraprogram/ that one can take if one so desires. To my knowledge this is the only Parapsychological course available in the United States. I have not been through the course, but have heard great things about it. I am not trying to sell the course, just putting the information out there for others to consider.
I believe that if you are serious about paranormal investigations, desire to see uniformity and high standards of investigation throughout the ghost hunting community, and to truly know and prove that there is life after death, then continuing the way we are going is actually causing more harm than good. Study the works by accredited Parapsychologists. We need to lay our knowledge of the paranormal on the foundation of science instead of something inferior. If the books that we have read on paranormal investigations are not either written by Parapsychologists or is heavily based on parapsychology then we need to look elsewhere. I am not saying that other works are useless, but we need a standard to measure the information by and that standard should be science. Using high-tech, state-of-the-art technology during investigations is NOT science and does not make you an expert in the field regardless of how expensive it may be or how much technology you use.
How can I say that shows like "Ghost Hunters" on the Sci-Fi Channel promotes fear-based sensationalism and ignorance? Because it is not based on the science of Parapsychology. How do I know this? Just by watching the show and their explanations of the phenomena. Its a shame and a disservice to the field of paranormal investigation. Sure everyone likes to be scared and enjoys the thrill of brushes with the unexplained in a dark basement, but this should not be the sole rationale of paranormal investigation groups. We can still have the rush of coming face to face with a ghost, but having the tools of real science to propel us forward
instead of running in place or even backwards is what we should all be about.
I have a real love for the paranormal, paranormal investigation/ghost hunter groups, and even the thrill of touching the unexplained in the dead of night, and this is why I write what I have in this blog. We have gone far enough without the light of real science to guide our way. Remember, question everything. Leave no stone unturned. This is part of the adventure and if your leaders or the "experts" you look up to have said little or nothing about Parapsychology then ask them why that is. Do the research and educate yourself and you will be amazed at the difference between being a follower of half-baked unscientific information and holding a hundred years of cutting-edge research of real science in your hand.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
John
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Comments from MySpace:
Loyd Auerbach:
Excellent blog, John.
"Ghost hunting" is part of what parapsychologists have long called "spontaneous case investigations." There is a rich history of investigations, methodology, findings and theories within the literature in and around the field of Parapsychology (and its precursor, psychical research) seemingly ignored by ghost hunters. More than 125 years of history and material.
Beyond that, the connections between ghostly phenomena and other psychic experiences (and the research that exists in the lab on psi) is overlooked and even dismissed out of turn by many so-called "professional ghost hunters."
One comment on courses and such...
Besides my own program in basic parapsychological studies (it is NOT an academic/university program), there are a few accredited colleges offering a course here or there on Parapsychology (though be careful of the ones offered by debunkers). More importantly, the Rhine Research Center (www.rhine.org), the Institute of Noetic Sciences (www.noetic.org) and the Parapsychology Foundation (www.parapsychology.org) offer various educational opportunities.
Finally, no one approaching this field should ignore the greater field of Parapsychology -- especially when real information is available. Start with the site of the Parapsychological Association (www.parapsych.org), the ONLY international organization of parapsychologists recognized by most science associations (including the American Association for the Advancement of Science). And do visit the Parapsychology Foundation's site (www.parapsychology.org) not only for the aforementioned info on education, but for so much more.
Loyd Auerbach, MS
Director, The Office of Paranormal Investigations
Paranormal Research Organization
Instructor, HCH Institute Parapsychological Studies Program
Adjunct Professor, JFK University
Rhine Research Center Advisory Board
Monday, June 16, 2008
The Debunker Cult of the Paranormal Investigation Community
The Debunker Cult of the Paranormal Investigation Community
Hello all,
This post is basically a response to the debacle over the latest "Ghost Hunters" episode on the Sci-Fi Channel regarding the investigation at the Moss Beach Distillery.
This episode has really revealed alot about the current state of the Paranormal Investigation community. After watching the show and going onto the Myspace blogs of both Jason and Grant (The leaders of the TAPS crew on the show) and reading hundreds of comments of their fans, it is evident to me how influential this show has become in the minds and hearts of amateur ghost hunters and paranormal investigators. So much so that several things have been made very evident:
Firstly, that this show has invigorated and molded the majority of the Paranormal Investigation groups throughout the United States and even internationally is undeniable. With this being the case whatever mindset and methodologies this TAPS team displays on camera ultimately effects a majority of similar groups throughout the world, even if their mindset and methodologies are in error or unbalanced.
After reading the amazing amount of comments on Jason and Grant's blogs on the Moss Beach Distillery no one can deny that the vast majority of fans and supporters of the "Ghost Hunters" show follow the TAPS team's mindset of being first and foremost: DEBUNKERS.
You hear the term "debunk" and "debunking" frequently on this show as well as throughout the Paranormal Investigation community, as if being a debunker is being a solid or scientific paranormal investigator. This is totally NOT the case whatsoever, but Jason and Grant and the rest of the TAPS team consider "debunking" as something that they are supposed to be doing during every investigation. As if the Apparitions have to step up to the plate and prove the team wrong if they are really present.
Let me state this loud and clear: Being a debunker does NOT make you an investigator. The origination of this field (Psychical Research and Parapsychological Field Investigations) was, and still is, supposed to be centered on SCIENCE and the SCIENTIFIC METHOD not on an unbalanced focus of being a debunker of the paranormal. This mindset flows throughout the comments section of Jason and Grant's blogs. They set up an example for so many others to immolate and follow and most do not know any better, because they know nothing of the science of parapsychology. Parapsychology Field Investigators were the first "Paranormal Investigators" or "Ghost Hunters" LONG before this became a cultural phenomenon.
Secondly, the almost rabid devotion to this show and the TAPS team, and specifically to Jason and Grant in particular, reveals something that is extremely unhealthy, which most seem to be oblivious about. This show and its direct effect upon the Paranormal Investigation community has, in effect, created a CULT. Yes, I said that. A cult. Do just a little research on the marks of a cult and you will see the tell tail signs there. Read the blog comments on their pages. Go to the online forums. Present honest questions and respectful criticism on these blogs or in the online forums and see what kind of responses you receive. This show has created a community - a "church" - of ghost hunters that does not question why it does what it does and which does not allow for honest and open criticism of the movement or its leaders. Nothing is wrong. No one need to question. If one where to study the history of "ghost hunting" and understand the science of it, one would have to either bring up questions or bury their head in the sand and stop thinking for themselves.
I have mentioned this briefly on a previous blog called "Ghost Hunting and Parapsychology - Is there a difference?" though I believe it is time for those of us who know better to stand up and pronounce that the emperor has no clothes. Why are the leaders of Parapsychology silent? Sure, no one likes confrontation or to create dissension among the ranks of the Paranormal Investigation community, but Ghost Hunters has created a movement that is not based on Parapsychology but its own self-created terminology and methodology. We all want unity and peace together and that is completely understandable and noble, but not at the cost of ones conscience. The vast majority has very little understanding of parapsychology or why it is important and the majority of the leadership within the Ghost Hunting community, for their own purposes, either toss the science of parapsychology aside or are willfully ignorant. You have never heard Jason and Grant publicly discuss parapsychology or the works of respected Parapsychologists because it flies in the face of their mindset and what they are doing. And be honest, if they were to change their methods and adopt a more scientific investigative practice it would not make for exciting television and thus in the end would not make the Sci-Fi Channel much money. Solid parapsychological investigations are not overly rad and would not make for an exciting show most of the time.
Those of us who are more knowledgeable in the science of parapsychology have been quiet for too long. We haven't liked getting our heads chewed off by the rabid fans of Ghost Hunters. Once bitten, twice shy. But we shouldn't allow this any longer. I am calling for awareness. To spread the awareness that the "Ghost Hunters" show is neither scientific nor balanced. I have said it before and I will say it again, setting up tech and using tech in the dark is NOT scientific. Tech use is NOT science. Debunking a purported haunting is NOT scientific in and of itself, especially by the sole use of tech. But you will never hear that from the leadership of these ghost hunter groups.
Am I setting a line in the sand? I guess I am. I do realize that the Ghost Hunters show is a condensing of many hours into just 20 to 40 minutes of air time and that there is much that doesn't get shown, but after four seasons of shows you can get an honest and accurate picture of what TAPS does and what their thoughts and mindsets are.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
Hello all,
This post is basically a response to the debacle over the latest "Ghost Hunters" episode on the Sci-Fi Channel regarding the investigation at the Moss Beach Distillery.
This episode has really revealed alot about the current state of the Paranormal Investigation community. After watching the show and going onto the Myspace blogs of both Jason and Grant (The leaders of the TAPS crew on the show) and reading hundreds of comments of their fans, it is evident to me how influential this show has become in the minds and hearts of amateur ghost hunters and paranormal investigators. So much so that several things have been made very evident:
Firstly, that this show has invigorated and molded the majority of the Paranormal Investigation groups throughout the United States and even internationally is undeniable. With this being the case whatever mindset and methodologies this TAPS team displays on camera ultimately effects a majority of similar groups throughout the world, even if their mindset and methodologies are in error or unbalanced.
After reading the amazing amount of comments on Jason and Grant's blogs on the Moss Beach Distillery no one can deny that the vast majority of fans and supporters of the "Ghost Hunters" show follow the TAPS team's mindset of being first and foremost: DEBUNKERS.
You hear the term "debunk" and "debunking" frequently on this show as well as throughout the Paranormal Investigation community, as if being a debunker is being a solid or scientific paranormal investigator. This is totally NOT the case whatsoever, but Jason and Grant and the rest of the TAPS team consider "debunking" as something that they are supposed to be doing during every investigation. As if the Apparitions have to step up to the plate and prove the team wrong if they are really present.
Let me state this loud and clear: Being a debunker does NOT make you an investigator. The origination of this field (Psychical Research and Parapsychological Field Investigations) was, and still is, supposed to be centered on SCIENCE and the SCIENTIFIC METHOD not on an unbalanced focus of being a debunker of the paranormal. This mindset flows throughout the comments section of Jason and Grant's blogs. They set up an example for so many others to immolate and follow and most do not know any better, because they know nothing of the science of parapsychology. Parapsychology Field Investigators were the first "Paranormal Investigators" or "Ghost Hunters" LONG before this became a cultural phenomenon.
Secondly, the almost rabid devotion to this show and the TAPS team, and specifically to Jason and Grant in particular, reveals something that is extremely unhealthy, which most seem to be oblivious about. This show and its direct effect upon the Paranormal Investigation community has, in effect, created a CULT. Yes, I said that. A cult. Do just a little research on the marks of a cult and you will see the tell tail signs there. Read the blog comments on their pages. Go to the online forums. Present honest questions and respectful criticism on these blogs or in the online forums and see what kind of responses you receive. This show has created a community - a "church" - of ghost hunters that does not question why it does what it does and which does not allow for honest and open criticism of the movement or its leaders. Nothing is wrong. No one need to question. If one where to study the history of "ghost hunting" and understand the science of it, one would have to either bring up questions or bury their head in the sand and stop thinking for themselves.
I have mentioned this briefly on a previous blog called "Ghost Hunting and Parapsychology - Is there a difference?" though I believe it is time for those of us who know better to stand up and pronounce that the emperor has no clothes. Why are the leaders of Parapsychology silent? Sure, no one likes confrontation or to create dissension among the ranks of the Paranormal Investigation community, but Ghost Hunters has created a movement that is not based on Parapsychology but its own self-created terminology and methodology. We all want unity and peace together and that is completely understandable and noble, but not at the cost of ones conscience. The vast majority has very little understanding of parapsychology or why it is important and the majority of the leadership within the Ghost Hunting community, for their own purposes, either toss the science of parapsychology aside or are willfully ignorant. You have never heard Jason and Grant publicly discuss parapsychology or the works of respected Parapsychologists because it flies in the face of their mindset and what they are doing. And be honest, if they were to change their methods and adopt a more scientific investigative practice it would not make for exciting television and thus in the end would not make the Sci-Fi Channel much money. Solid parapsychological investigations are not overly rad and would not make for an exciting show most of the time.
Those of us who are more knowledgeable in the science of parapsychology have been quiet for too long. We haven't liked getting our heads chewed off by the rabid fans of Ghost Hunters. Once bitten, twice shy. But we shouldn't allow this any longer. I am calling for awareness. To spread the awareness that the "Ghost Hunters" show is neither scientific nor balanced. I have said it before and I will say it again, setting up tech and using tech in the dark is NOT scientific. Tech use is NOT science. Debunking a purported haunting is NOT scientific in and of itself, especially by the sole use of tech. But you will never hear that from the leadership of these ghost hunter groups.
Am I setting a line in the sand? I guess I am. I do realize that the Ghost Hunters show is a condensing of many hours into just 20 to 40 minutes of air time and that there is much that doesn't get shown, but after four seasons of shows you can get an honest and accurate picture of what TAPS does and what their thoughts and mindsets are.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
The Moss Beach Distillery, Ghost Hunters, Paranormal Dark Ages, and A Reply to Linda
The Moss Beach Distillery, Ghost Hunters, Paranormal Dark Ages, and A Reply to Linda
This is a response to an email that I received from "Linda" (http://www.myspace.com/virgolinda10) concerning the mess over the Moss Beach Distillery investigation on Ghost Hunters. Linda does not accept emails from people who are not her "Friend" so I cannot send this reply to her privately. This will make for a good blog though.
Linda also posted this in response to my comment on Jason Hawes' blog called "Moss Beach episode!". Conveniently, Jason deleted my and Dr. Rhodes fair criticisms from his blog, further showing how they cannot take any criticism, which proves my point of Ghost Hunters leadership and fans are cultic in their mentality. I used to respect Jason, but this just shows how little of a man he is who cannot take fair, unbiased, constructive criticism. He has a responsibility as a leader on such a public television show to receive and respond fairly to constructive criticism. To shut out everything except the unquestioning adoration of his fans is a very sad thing.
Here is the reply:
************************************
"Well professor - let me say this."
You don't even know me and yet you call me "professor" at the beginning of your communication. I know you do not think I am an actual professor, so this is a snide comment against me personally. The very kind of thing that I'd expect from anyone who takes the Ghost Hunter show seriously.
"Jason and Grant do not claim to be scientist - never have and never will."
They have never claimed to be scientists, but that HAVE claimed that their methods are scientific. This is one of the problems with TAPS. They want to be respected as investigators but they totally neglect the 130 years of science that real "ghost hunting" has been built upon. You speak as if science is a negative thing within the field of paranormal investigations. Real science IS the investigation of the unknown. If you don't follow scientific method or the body of research that science has uncovered so far with regards to the paranormal then you WILL go down an road that is unscientific and invalid as real research in the end.
"The Ghost Hunters is more of a reality TV show."
Yes it is.
"Coming to a conclusion about what is real and not real is subjective anyway - don't you think?"
Then why email me? Why does it matter? If it is all really subjective as you say then nothing in your email means anything. Its all subjective.
"There are many personal experiences that cannot be caught on tape but the team always gives the benefit of the doubt."
Yes.
"I will defend your right to your opinion, but to cut people down because they happen to be loyal to a show is something personal for each individual."
Yes, it is my opinion that the Ghost Hunters movement/fan base is much more of a cult than an open and freethinking community. If you have constructive criticism of the show and voice it publicly, you end up getting a hundred or a thousand screaming fans in your face calling you names and completely throwing away any valid criticisms you have. These are signs of cultic thinking and reacting. Do the research.
"You, Mr/Mrs Scientist have no right to deny the right of any other person's loyalty and or feelings."
Did I EVER deny the right of any other person to do or feel anything??? To actually deny the right of someone something implies power over that person. I have power over no one, but I do have the right to cry out "The Emperor has no clothes!" when the Emperor has no clothes on. People who are unknowingly caught in a cult will kick and scream against their helpers and that is what I am trying to do.
"They were not told of the gimmicks, bottom line."
I agree. I never said otherwise.
"They do not read restaurant reviews in California because they live in Rhode Island."
That is ridiculous. Any knowledgeable researcher of ghosts and hauntings within the United States would come across the Moss Beach Distillery in the stories and reports and previous investigations by other researchers. I've never been to Moss Beach, but I have read about it in many ghost books and seen it on TV shows. And yes, Loyd Auerbach (since he lives only 50 miles away from Moss Beach) has investigated the place more than anyone and has written about it extensively in his books.
Listen, this is one of the reasons why I do not respect Jason as an investigator. He creates a smear campaign against Loyd on one hand and on the other hand says that he respects him and his investigative methods. It is evident that Jason nor Grant has even read Loyd's books or really knows his methods. If Jason HAD read Loyd's books he would have known about the Moss Beach Distillery and the devices. This is what REAL investigators do, they never stop learning nor stop gathering information from their peers. The Paranormal Investigation community SHOULD be peer-reviewed, but that would mean that it would have to be based on science and not self-created terminology and methodology (see the bottom of this reply). Certainly Jason does not consider Loyd a peer of his otherwise he would have had more contact and familiarity with Loyd and his work, AS WELL as stifling the smear campaign against him. Jason knows whats going on and how this is hurting Loyd personally, but he doesn't care and allows his fans to chide Loyd unfairly.
Jason and Grant are good people. Its evident from watching the show (and yes I have the shows on DVD and study them too). But even good people can get caught up into a cultic movement, especially its leaders. Real leaders are open and inviting of their peers constructive criticism and learn from each other, not allow mud to be thrown by tens of thousands of adoring fans. That is selfish and self-serving even if Loyd was wrong in his response to Jason. Jason has proven that he is not respectful of others nor especially fellow investigators who have been doing this longer than he has.
"If you notice on the show - although upset about the "gimmicks" they continued to try and find something."
Yes they did, but it was not with an open mind any longer. They went through the motions, but expected that it was all a setup/hoax.
"So if the alledged "blue lady" showed up they would of gone with it."
I believe that they would have, but their reaction to the cheesy gimmicks made them too skeptical about the Blue Lady to fairly investigate it. They were in super-debunk mode (compared to normal debunk mode). It is more common for true Apparitions to make themselves known to people who are not overly skeptical.
"My question to you is this. Why does Moss Beach have to put trickery in?"
You are not listening. The devices WERE NOT "TRICKERY". No one, not Jason or Grant nor Loyd considers these devices as "trickery" or "deceptive" props. The Moss Beach Distillery created these gimmicks for tours. Apparitions do not make things move on-command by the living. This being the case they created the props to show interested customers what the REAL phenomenon was like, NOT to try to trick customers or investigators. Like I said, if these were designed to be "trickery" or "deceptive" they would have been created much differently and the previous investigations of the place would have made it known to the rest of us that the place was a hoax, but its not.
"The proof is in the pudding. If Moss Beach truly has "ghosts" there would be no need for "trickery".
Jason and Grant call it "fakery". Their reputation is on the line - so they think - in this investigation and so they have to call it "fakery". But any UNBIASED and FAIR research would make it evident that these devices were not "fakery" but designed for "reenactments" of what happens or has happened there in the past. Do I support that? No. Do I think it was a bad (stupid) decision to NOT be upfront about the devices? Yes I do. But just because an actual "fun-house" has props to scare you doesn't mean it can't still be haunted does it? I'm not calling MBD a fun-house, but anyone with an unbiased mindset would clearly see what the purpose is in these devices.
"Your cutting down the Ghost Hunters" but what is Moss Beach liability in this?"
They ARE liable. I said that from the beginning, so did Loyd. Did you not ACTUALLY READ my blog or did you do what the other cultic fans of TAPS do, just read a few sentences and start writing away?
"Someone got hurt because of this bogus place."
Grant hurt his ankle, but that would have happened whether or not there were pneumatics in the ceiling. Did the pneumatics in the ceiling cause Grants sprained ankle? They would have ventured up there anyways to check it out since there were reports of the ACTUAL lamps moving via paranormal activity. To say that Grant got hurt because the place was "bogus" proves the almost mindless mentality of these arguments. Come on now, you are an investigator. Think about it (that was not a put down either).
"I live in California, years ago when I went to Moss Beach the bartender told me about the "trickery". After that I never considered the place to be haunted."
And thats your uninformed opinion, which you are entitled to.
"I thought the restuarant went to "desparate measures" for financial purposes. There credibility went out the door."
Again that is uninformed opinion. Apparently they do great business because of the food, the view, and the beauty of the place, NOT because of some paranormal activity. Yes, they have used the activity for their own financial benefit JUST AS every other public place or restaurant that TAPS visits seeks to do, yet I highly doubt that the activity of the Blue Lady there has had any significant measure upon their finances.
"If this restaurant had been truly haunted the team would of loved it."
That is ridiculous. Sure if the Blue Lady became visible to all and walked through them maybe so, but do you think that even if that really happened that they would have chalked it up to being just another "fakery" created by projectors? Think about it. Once they experienced the womans voice in the bathroom and the speaker their mind was closed down to any real haunting. The Blue Lady would have had to appear and start throwing stuff at them for them to believe it was haunted. And maybe not even then.
"Or would you prefer they ran with the fake stuff, claiming it was real?"
Come on.
"The science of the paranormal is all subjective."
Really. Wow. And you know this how? This just proves your willful ignorance of Parapsychology. It IS science and there is empirical scientific evidence of the paranormal that has nothing to do with subjectivity. You would have known this if you had done your homework.
"Your "science" does not impress me in the least."
No, because you are willfully ignorant concerning it. For any REAL proof of life after death to have any real impact upon the world will HAVE to come through SCIENCE. If it doesn't it is worthless. TAPS and the majority of other paranormal investigation groups will continue on doing what they are doing and nothing will change. The world WILL NOT be impacted by their investigations or their unscientific evidence of photo orbs, EVPs, EMF readings and IR videography. EVERY great advancement in civilization has come through SCIENCE and the evolution of science. Parapsychology is on the evolutionary front lines of science, but it doesn't have the backing of the people because of ignorance. Mostly willful ignorance. If TAPS and the Paranormal Investigative community were to start studying science - Parapsychology - there would be a shift in awareness. Emotional and financial support would flood the scientific community and we would end up making major leaps forward in not only science but also in human consciousness, technologies, and even human evolution.
Am I a follower of Loyd Auerbach? No. I respect him and his research. He is a Parapsychologist and a lover of science and the scientific method. Where would the world be without science??? Still stuck in the dark ages. I see what he is trying to do and I agree with him because of parapsychology.
Let me make this clear: Paranormal Investigations will go no where and accomplish nothing substantial for the world if it does not embrace science at some point. If you or the rest of the TAPS community fear or brush aside parapsychology you HAVE to really ask yourself why? Why? Parapsychology is not perfect and parapsychologists are not perfect. We are ALL still learning. But if we learn without the help of science where will this learning take us?
We are in a paranormal Dark Age. Ultimately, if we ever come out of this Dark Age it will be because of science and the advancement of science, but that will NOT happen if the masses - who are so interested in understanding the paranormal - never truly embrace it.
If I am wrong here then please explain it to me. How can we progress in our understanding and grow and evolve in the human race without this happening?
"I don't care how Jason and Grant announce it bottom line. When they capture a haunting on film, recordings - now that is what I call science."
Exactly! That is what YOU call science. Science calls that crap. But you have to understand WHY science calls that crap and improve yourself. If you don't then you are either in to doing this only for fun or for money. Jason and Grant cannot rightfully claim that the show doesn't pay them well. But that is a whole other can of worms.
**On a side note Jason states in his blog: "As for us not doing enough research before the case, like we have always said, we wait till after the case so we do not contaminate ourselves with the claims, history or anything else of the case. Why read up on a place prior and find out so and so died in the back room and then go there and focus mostly on the back room? "
This is ridiculous. Watch the first two seasons of Ghost Hunters on DVD, study them carefully (I have). They have been doing the opposite of what he says here. They have Donna or someone else to research and a history of the place BEFORE they go in. Besides if this was true then Jason and Grant need to start skipping the "Interview" portion of the investigation, because that is where the owner or witness tells them what happened where and this and that. So much for doing the investigation without "contamination".
This is a response to an email that I received from "Linda" (http://www.myspace.com/virgolinda10) concerning the mess over the Moss Beach Distillery investigation on Ghost Hunters. Linda does not accept emails from people who are not her "Friend" so I cannot send this reply to her privately. This will make for a good blog though.
Linda also posted this in response to my comment on Jason Hawes' blog called "Moss Beach episode!". Conveniently, Jason deleted my and Dr. Rhodes fair criticisms from his blog, further showing how they cannot take any criticism, which proves my point of Ghost Hunters leadership and fans are cultic in their mentality. I used to respect Jason, but this just shows how little of a man he is who cannot take fair, unbiased, constructive criticism. He has a responsibility as a leader on such a public television show to receive and respond fairly to constructive criticism. To shut out everything except the unquestioning adoration of his fans is a very sad thing.
Here is the reply:
************************************
"Well professor - let me say this."
You don't even know me and yet you call me "professor" at the beginning of your communication. I know you do not think I am an actual professor, so this is a snide comment against me personally. The very kind of thing that I'd expect from anyone who takes the Ghost Hunter show seriously.
"Jason and Grant do not claim to be scientist - never have and never will."
They have never claimed to be scientists, but that HAVE claimed that their methods are scientific. This is one of the problems with TAPS. They want to be respected as investigators but they totally neglect the 130 years of science that real "ghost hunting" has been built upon. You speak as if science is a negative thing within the field of paranormal investigations. Real science IS the investigation of the unknown. If you don't follow scientific method or the body of research that science has uncovered so far with regards to the paranormal then you WILL go down an road that is unscientific and invalid as real research in the end.
"The Ghost Hunters is more of a reality TV show."
Yes it is.
"Coming to a conclusion about what is real and not real is subjective anyway - don't you think?"
Then why email me? Why does it matter? If it is all really subjective as you say then nothing in your email means anything. Its all subjective.
"There are many personal experiences that cannot be caught on tape but the team always gives the benefit of the doubt."
Yes.
"I will defend your right to your opinion, but to cut people down because they happen to be loyal to a show is something personal for each individual."
Yes, it is my opinion that the Ghost Hunters movement/fan base is much more of a cult than an open and freethinking community. If you have constructive criticism of the show and voice it publicly, you end up getting a hundred or a thousand screaming fans in your face calling you names and completely throwing away any valid criticisms you have. These are signs of cultic thinking and reacting. Do the research.
"You, Mr/Mrs Scientist have no right to deny the right of any other person's loyalty and or feelings."
Did I EVER deny the right of any other person to do or feel anything??? To actually deny the right of someone something implies power over that person. I have power over no one, but I do have the right to cry out "The Emperor has no clothes!" when the Emperor has no clothes on. People who are unknowingly caught in a cult will kick and scream against their helpers and that is what I am trying to do.
"They were not told of the gimmicks, bottom line."
I agree. I never said otherwise.
"They do not read restaurant reviews in California because they live in Rhode Island."
That is ridiculous. Any knowledgeable researcher of ghosts and hauntings within the United States would come across the Moss Beach Distillery in the stories and reports and previous investigations by other researchers. I've never been to Moss Beach, but I have read about it in many ghost books and seen it on TV shows. And yes, Loyd Auerbach (since he lives only 50 miles away from Moss Beach) has investigated the place more than anyone and has written about it extensively in his books.
Listen, this is one of the reasons why I do not respect Jason as an investigator. He creates a smear campaign against Loyd on one hand and on the other hand says that he respects him and his investigative methods. It is evident that Jason nor Grant has even read Loyd's books or really knows his methods. If Jason HAD read Loyd's books he would have known about the Moss Beach Distillery and the devices. This is what REAL investigators do, they never stop learning nor stop gathering information from their peers. The Paranormal Investigation community SHOULD be peer-reviewed, but that would mean that it would have to be based on science and not self-created terminology and methodology (see the bottom of this reply). Certainly Jason does not consider Loyd a peer of his otherwise he would have had more contact and familiarity with Loyd and his work, AS WELL as stifling the smear campaign against him. Jason knows whats going on and how this is hurting Loyd personally, but he doesn't care and allows his fans to chide Loyd unfairly.
Jason and Grant are good people. Its evident from watching the show (and yes I have the shows on DVD and study them too). But even good people can get caught up into a cultic movement, especially its leaders. Real leaders are open and inviting of their peers constructive criticism and learn from each other, not allow mud to be thrown by tens of thousands of adoring fans. That is selfish and self-serving even if Loyd was wrong in his response to Jason. Jason has proven that he is not respectful of others nor especially fellow investigators who have been doing this longer than he has.
"If you notice on the show - although upset about the "gimmicks" they continued to try and find something."
Yes they did, but it was not with an open mind any longer. They went through the motions, but expected that it was all a setup/hoax.
"So if the alledged "blue lady" showed up they would of gone with it."
I believe that they would have, but their reaction to the cheesy gimmicks made them too skeptical about the Blue Lady to fairly investigate it. They were in super-debunk mode (compared to normal debunk mode). It is more common for true Apparitions to make themselves known to people who are not overly skeptical.
"My question to you is this. Why does Moss Beach have to put trickery in?"
You are not listening. The devices WERE NOT "TRICKERY". No one, not Jason or Grant nor Loyd considers these devices as "trickery" or "deceptive" props. The Moss Beach Distillery created these gimmicks for tours. Apparitions do not make things move on-command by the living. This being the case they created the props to show interested customers what the REAL phenomenon was like, NOT to try to trick customers or investigators. Like I said, if these were designed to be "trickery" or "deceptive" they would have been created much differently and the previous investigations of the place would have made it known to the rest of us that the place was a hoax, but its not.
"The proof is in the pudding. If Moss Beach truly has "ghosts" there would be no need for "trickery".
Jason and Grant call it "fakery". Their reputation is on the line - so they think - in this investigation and so they have to call it "fakery". But any UNBIASED and FAIR research would make it evident that these devices were not "fakery" but designed for "reenactments" of what happens or has happened there in the past. Do I support that? No. Do I think it was a bad (stupid) decision to NOT be upfront about the devices? Yes I do. But just because an actual "fun-house" has props to scare you doesn't mean it can't still be haunted does it? I'm not calling MBD a fun-house, but anyone with an unbiased mindset would clearly see what the purpose is in these devices.
"Your cutting down the Ghost Hunters" but what is Moss Beach liability in this?"
They ARE liable. I said that from the beginning, so did Loyd. Did you not ACTUALLY READ my blog or did you do what the other cultic fans of TAPS do, just read a few sentences and start writing away?
"Someone got hurt because of this bogus place."
Grant hurt his ankle, but that would have happened whether or not there were pneumatics in the ceiling. Did the pneumatics in the ceiling cause Grants sprained ankle? They would have ventured up there anyways to check it out since there were reports of the ACTUAL lamps moving via paranormal activity. To say that Grant got hurt because the place was "bogus" proves the almost mindless mentality of these arguments. Come on now, you are an investigator. Think about it (that was not a put down either).
"I live in California, years ago when I went to Moss Beach the bartender told me about the "trickery". After that I never considered the place to be haunted."
And thats your uninformed opinion, which you are entitled to.
"I thought the restuarant went to "desparate measures" for financial purposes. There credibility went out the door."
Again that is uninformed opinion. Apparently they do great business because of the food, the view, and the beauty of the place, NOT because of some paranormal activity. Yes, they have used the activity for their own financial benefit JUST AS every other public place or restaurant that TAPS visits seeks to do, yet I highly doubt that the activity of the Blue Lady there has had any significant measure upon their finances.
"If this restaurant had been truly haunted the team would of loved it."
That is ridiculous. Sure if the Blue Lady became visible to all and walked through them maybe so, but do you think that even if that really happened that they would have chalked it up to being just another "fakery" created by projectors? Think about it. Once they experienced the womans voice in the bathroom and the speaker their mind was closed down to any real haunting. The Blue Lady would have had to appear and start throwing stuff at them for them to believe it was haunted. And maybe not even then.
"Or would you prefer they ran with the fake stuff, claiming it was real?"
Come on.
"The science of the paranormal is all subjective."
Really. Wow. And you know this how? This just proves your willful ignorance of Parapsychology. It IS science and there is empirical scientific evidence of the paranormal that has nothing to do with subjectivity. You would have known this if you had done your homework.
"Your "science" does not impress me in the least."
No, because you are willfully ignorant concerning it. For any REAL proof of life after death to have any real impact upon the world will HAVE to come through SCIENCE. If it doesn't it is worthless. TAPS and the majority of other paranormal investigation groups will continue on doing what they are doing and nothing will change. The world WILL NOT be impacted by their investigations or their unscientific evidence of photo orbs, EVPs, EMF readings and IR videography. EVERY great advancement in civilization has come through SCIENCE and the evolution of science. Parapsychology is on the evolutionary front lines of science, but it doesn't have the backing of the people because of ignorance. Mostly willful ignorance. If TAPS and the Paranormal Investigative community were to start studying science - Parapsychology - there would be a shift in awareness. Emotional and financial support would flood the scientific community and we would end up making major leaps forward in not only science but also in human consciousness, technologies, and even human evolution.
Am I a follower of Loyd Auerbach? No. I respect him and his research. He is a Parapsychologist and a lover of science and the scientific method. Where would the world be without science??? Still stuck in the dark ages. I see what he is trying to do and I agree with him because of parapsychology.
Let me make this clear: Paranormal Investigations will go no where and accomplish nothing substantial for the world if it does not embrace science at some point. If you or the rest of the TAPS community fear or brush aside parapsychology you HAVE to really ask yourself why? Why? Parapsychology is not perfect and parapsychologists are not perfect. We are ALL still learning. But if we learn without the help of science where will this learning take us?
We are in a paranormal Dark Age. Ultimately, if we ever come out of this Dark Age it will be because of science and the advancement of science, but that will NOT happen if the masses - who are so interested in understanding the paranormal - never truly embrace it.
If I am wrong here then please explain it to me. How can we progress in our understanding and grow and evolve in the human race without this happening?
"I don't care how Jason and Grant announce it bottom line. When they capture a haunting on film, recordings - now that is what I call science."
Exactly! That is what YOU call science. Science calls that crap. But you have to understand WHY science calls that crap and improve yourself. If you don't then you are either in to doing this only for fun or for money. Jason and Grant cannot rightfully claim that the show doesn't pay them well. But that is a whole other can of worms.
**On a side note Jason states in his blog: "As for us not doing enough research before the case, like we have always said, we wait till after the case so we do not contaminate ourselves with the claims, history or anything else of the case. Why read up on a place prior and find out so and so died in the back room and then go there and focus mostly on the back room? "
This is ridiculous. Watch the first two seasons of Ghost Hunters on DVD, study them carefully (I have). They have been doing the opposite of what he says here. They have Donna or someone else to research and a history of the place BEFORE they go in. Besides if this was true then Jason and Grant need to start skipping the "Interview" portion of the investigation, because that is where the owner or witness tells them what happened where and this and that. So much for doing the investigation without "contamination".
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